Less painfull for eye version - sorry
Dont get me wrong i love Alchemy/Herbalism in this game, but the problem i have(and not me only) is that the entire skill tree have its problems.

And in comparison to the rest in-game skills offers not much. Not to mention the main problem. Herbalism and Alchemy are the same skill. I would even dare to say that alchemy is copy paste herbalism.
The only difference between is that you use Alcohol in Alchemy skill, that's it. As reward for unlocking last skill you dont get new recaptures, ach yes GOLD.... Still not much. What i would like to suggest are those things:

Expanded Debuffs - What i mean is that we have buffs for int/str/con etc. attribute, why we dont get poison for int/str/con etc we have only for health/stamina...

Poison Effects - poison doesn't necessary mean only stat effects why not add visual effects only poison like - blindness,bleeding,blackouts,slowed weapon swing...

Acid - which perhaps could be used in alchemy in some way and definitely can be used for acid grenade(that can destroy armor and burn quite bad)

AND BTW yes medieval alchemists produced hydrochloric acid(leather and wood preservation)[/b], nitric acid(for metal preservation), potash(glass production,fertilizer, and apparently in baking) and sodium carbonateand(used in tanning, papermaking). They were also able to identify and produce - arsenic(used in medicine, poison and for making dyes), antimony(again medicine - puking tablet), and bismuth(medicine-early antibiotics called"poison that heals", bismuth soils)....

Permanent Potions - Permanent str\inl - I know someone will sound balance alarm soon, BUT that kinda potion would be available for someone at 100 skill at Alchemy have perfect herbs 100 quality and require gold/diamond dust with only some % chance to create. After all Alchemist tried to create elixir of immortality...

Spirits - or to be clear alcohols of high proc. or Distilled beverage in short absinthe vodka and other spirits which could be used in expanding and lengthen potion effects. I know there are alcohols in game but they are fertilized not distilled(do not forget who have alembic guys). All alchemist need to do is to get wine\cider etc and use alchemist table\shop. I know you would like some vodka developers

Love the poison effects, suggested some different stuff for that earlier myself.

Dislike the permanent potions, unless you mean to permanently increase one ability until 150 max is reached unless you have a separate ability set to lower, then it would increase one ability and decrease the other. Like speed leveling.

I would love to see alchemy used for making dyes, but I could also see that with herbalism.

Honestly, I feel like you miss the biggest problem with alchemy. Why are we using the herbs to create stuff rather than using herbalist preparations.

Dislike the permanent potions, unless you mean to permanently increase one ability until 150 max is reached unless you have a separate ability set to lower, then it would increase one ability and decrease the other. Like speed leveling.

Yes permanent until 150 max thats what i meant...

I would love to see alchemy used for making dyes, but I could also see that with herbalism.

Im afraid this will be produced by artists, but if developers will be so kind i say why not

Honestly, I feel like you miss the biggest problem with alchemy. Why are we using the herbs to create stuff rather than using herbalist preparations.

The problem with alchemy is that its the same skill as herbalism. Copy paste version of it. What i try to suggest is something that is already in herbalism (flux, naphtha, flavor). In short chemical compounds used in some situation but only available in alchemy.
THE last skill (5 tier) NOT in herbalism (3 tier).
And would like to have more of this stuff.
Like in example - some oil that makes weapons quality last longer if used in maintain or potash that if used in fertilizing gives more grain or another like flux-like-compound that you req to build something etc.
For now herbalims and alchemy is not balanced and it doesnt matter if you make Bulls strength preparation(herbalims) or bulls strength potion(alchemy) effects and time are EXACTLY the same(in short just wasting alcohol), but even IF those two skills are finally balanced (preparations are worse than potions) even then only whats changed is that you will evetually produce gold in last tier skill.
I will even say more(why not).
What im proposing is that Last tier skill should not be reduced only to herbs but expand its knowledge to other things. Minerals, organs etc BUT NOT as catalizators but as lone ingridients in their full rights(cought!..skyrim).

In short for some that dont want to read whole...
Herbalist can(3 tier skill) make
buff\debuff preparations
use herbs only
only 3 compounds -flux ,flavour, naphta
Alchemist can (5 tier skill) make -
buff\debuff potions(better than prep)
use herbs,minerals,organs,
flavor, naphtha, flavor,acid(and additional other compounds dunno how many depends how much devs want to do)
permanent potions
better alcohols(distillation)

use herbs,minerals,organs,

No, Use preparations, minerals, and organs.

buff\debuff potions(better than prep)

By using preparations you already start with a higher quality ingredient due to your herbalism skill, which will invariably give you a higher duration. Also, if you're using those other ingredients with the preparations, it will have to increase the magnitude of the potion, causing potions to be better anyway. Plus it gives a good reason to keep herbalism up by tying the two skills on the same tier together.

Herbs should only be for Herbalism. NOT Alchemy. Heck, they're called preparations, what else would you be preparing them for?

Yes permanent until 150 max thats what i meant...

Excellent, then we fully agree on this.

flavor, naphtha, flavor,acid(and additional other compounds dunno how many depends how much devs want to do)

The explosive Naphtha I get, as it's a different substance and should actually use Naphtha as an ingredient, rather than herbs,
Flavor is already made in the Tier 3, no reason to make it in the tier 5
Acid is interesting
Other substances would also be interesting, for sure. Especially if you could utilize a poison preparation to create arsenic for dyes, or something of that mindset........

better alcohols(distillation)

I don't have an opinion on this.

All i can say is i fully agree

think when somone kan make posions and alkohol , he can also cook
sry my bad english

@ buntfux
Although cooking and alchemy are using compareable methods and should be more similar in regard of game mechanics, they are based on a completely different kind of knowledge.
I studied chemistry and one of my professors was not able to cook decent coffee by himself while it is just a simple extraction. ^^


I completely agree with the statement "Herbalism and Alchemy are the same skill" and i find both extremely limited as they are right now.
It is just about mixing 2 or 3 herbs together and thats it. For alchemy you at least can use catalysts and preparations but that doesn't really make it more complex and different than herbalism.
There should be more tools for both skills and more methods, like extractions, fermentations, distillation and so on. There could be more products other than alcoholic potions, flux, naptha and food flavor. What about herbal teas, ointments and Powders?
I also don't really like the idea of flux, naphta and food flavor.

Flux: Why should 2 herbs mixed together produce Flux, which will be heated up with regular iron to 1500 C to produce steel? That is not very logical. Why don't we take charcoal as flux for steel production? To make it harder to obtain steel you can still make it more tedious to produce, by extending the production time and by introducing more production steps (folding, tempering). And maybe allow mistakes, so you have to start over, if you did something wrong. Herbalism has nothing to do with steel production. If you still want to involve alchemists in steelproduction, let them produce coke out of charcoal and use that instead of flux. And in case of mortar.. use calcinated limestone instead of flux.

Naphta: Again, why should 2 herbs mixed together produce a flamable liquid? It would make more sense to produce some herbal oil first and then distill it to obtain something flamable. Or we could go all the way and produce coal tar by pyrolysis of wood and distill that. Or we could go whaling and produce lamp oil out of blubber.

Food Flavor: What is that suposed to be? Sodium Glutamate? Why don't we introduce spices, like basil, pepper, salt, thyme, sage and so on? I am sure a lot of people would like that.

Well that become quite a discussion

So lets sum everything alchemy needs in my opinion(entire Alchemy skill-tree):
1. Expanded Natures lore -
1.1 Add expanded inspection skill for players and give ability to inspect herbs you want to pick...

2. Expanded gathering -
2.1 Actually i dont think you can add much to this skill but i know devs or someone will figure something out or just let it be

3. Expand Herbalism -
3.1 Give herbalist ability to plant those herb, so he can grow herbs he really needs
Complex Planting - Azeron
3.2 Preparations should be not full-product but half-product that you can use later in alchemy skill...
3.3 Give plants 4 possible effects not 3 this way you give place for additional cocktails(potions) and preparations and other...
3.4 Give herbalist ability to make paints and dyes from herbs...
3.5 Tea - Mhmmmmmm - healing Tea(ofc reduces hunger and gives buff (depends with what preperation tea is made)...
3.6 Remove flavour add spaces - maybe add some herbs a pepper properity and paprika or give a farmer ability to plant those and add salt from or mines. Give alchemist ability to posses salt from sea water which then herbalist can connect and make SPICE that can be used or used it separately...

4. Expand Medicine -
4.1 Crippling wounds - broken leg then you cant run, broken arm you cant block as good or you just do half the dmg than normal, shattered head occasional blackouts, whiteouts or visual effects, bleeding until you are DEAD not debuff that go away and when rib is broken your stamina depletes quicker. In short short run - find someone with first aid skill or better yet medic...
"I dont want to see i have broken leg by icon somewhere on screen and wonder what stats game have lowered i want to FEEL i have broken leg..."
4.2 More appropriate tools -
4.2.1 Broke arm/leg - ok... you uses hammer to get limb back in shape and then what? you can sprint again? Nope mate you go to bed to let it heal completely or you stiff the leg\arm with 2 branches and some plant fiber
4.2.2 Bleeding - I have always wondered with what you are stopping the bleeding - with hand?
Simple we can use some cloth or burn out wound by using torch, ofc you need knife as well...
4.2.3 Broken ribs, shattered head - Simple, knives to repair broken rib\head. Patient need to lay on the bed...
4.3 Add alternative to heal poison without antidote - "open wound" ability. Medic uses knife and poison effect is lost but bleeding effect is gained medic the uses ability mend wound to stop it(not recommended method if patient doesn't have much health)
4.4 Human bodies can be used to study medicine and remains can be sued in alchemy(human - heart,eye) - morbid i know
4.5 Add plague sickness - this effect will be gained if bodies are not burnt or buried - yes i don't like idea with graves
4.6 Why potion dont have effect when im wounded i dont see point
4.7 Like i said bodies instead of graves - here:
Bodies instead graves

5. Expand Alchemy -
5.1 Alchemy takes time - I understand preparation making in this way, after all herbalist does is mix herbs in mortar BUT Alchemy consist from complicated processes and this way potions are more precious and can be better. Potions are not made from throwing herb into alcohol are not made instantly -seriously WHAT!?
5.2 Alchemy tools - Alchemist possess wide variants of chemical glassware why isn't it even shown in alchemical process
5.2.1 Destillator - This is the only tool which is required to make a simple potion. You uses preparation(this way you connects herbalist with alchemy) and alcohol and additional ingrid like minerals or organic components which then takes time (how much dunno lets live it in hands of devs)
5.2.2 Calcinator - is used in making mineral and organic materials into liquid or ash form that can be later used in destilation to make or enhance potions
5.2.3 Alembic and retort - Removes positive or negative effects from potions
5.3 III Tiers of potions and permanent potions -
- First time you distill you make a potion
- Second time you distill you will need the same ingridients higher quality thus making potion lets say tier 2 with better effects and more effect time
- Third time you destill works the same time but making permanent potion that rises attribute permanently only attribute buffs and debuffs can be made into tier 3 potions and they doesnt rise beyond 150 attribute points(quicker attribute training)
BUT triple distilling are based heavily on luck attribute - in short if you fail you lost potion completly and need to start again
Double distilling is available only for alchemist with 90lvl
Triple distilling is available only for alchemist with 100lvl so not everyone can just made them
5.4 Flux Naptha and other chemical substances - made only by Alchemist (sorry no flux or naptha for herbalist) and can be made in more quantity than 1
5.5 Add other useful chemical components substances etc(like flux) that can be used in everyday life or to make life easier...

Well that's mostly it even if less than half of those ideas can be implemented into the game i would be happy man.
Those ideas are mostly not mine. I only collected all ideas from all people that from forum in hopes to give alchemy treatment it truly deserves.
Vote up and like it if you think most ideas are fine with you
quote points you dont get or you didnt like

And sorry for my English

I agree that alchemy needs some work, I love alchemy I play an alchemist every restart. However the way I see it there is only a limited number of useful potions right now, HHP Dam, SHP dam, HSTAM dam, Antidote, HStam regen, Naptha, and Flux, This makes me sad because I feel like there is so many other things that could be done with it, Even if all they did was make the stat damage poisons take away 15/20 for a few minutes they would atleast make me think about using them but as they are now I doubt anyone would even notice if you hit them with a strength poison for 4.5 strength, and I sure don't notice a difference when I drink a bonus strength potion for 4.5 strength.